In this episode, I lie down with Geoffrey Miller, PhD: evolutionary psychology professor, author of books, out polyamorist, lifelong investigator of human nature.
I met Geoffrey at a dinner party hosted by a Blue Man and curated by an adventuresome scholar of the brain— expressly for the purpose of discussing the future of intimacy. The sex scientist Dr. Zhana was there, our mutual friend and my horizontal guest of episodes 4 & 5. She and the brain scholar invited Geoffrey. In fact, the dinner party was scheduled around his visit to New York.
And then, I knew why.
He would listen and listen, and then say something so incisive, so crystalline-clear, backed by conscientious research and immersion in the topic of human sexuality. He spoke quietly and with a gravitas reserved for someone who has studied their studies and lectured their lectures and doesn’t need to prove any of it to you.
He was also a bit rakish in the way that my first-ever lover was. They have the same je ne sais quoi about the eyes— a mischeivousness, an insouciant uplooking through a fringe of lashes, a Domly-ness that’s only partly concealed by their glasses... but loudly visible, if you know how to look for that sort of thing.
We recorded on a king bed in a mancave in Bushwick, Brooklyn, an airbnb that Geoffrey had rented for his New York stay. There was a fish tank. An enormous leather couch, and a flat screen TV. Because we recorded in my neighborhood: this episode has plenty of local color. If it’s not the overhead train squealing to a stop, it’s the incessant galumphing of the toddler upstairs (uaghhh), or the ice cream truck playing it’s deathly tune in the background. If you add in some planes, cringe-worthy music played at an unholy decibel, and a whole lotta sirens: This is what it’s like to live in Brooklyn. Or at least, in my part of Brooklyn.
In this, the first part of our voluminous, far-ranging conversation, we talked about his family dynasty (11 aunts & uncles, 28 cousins), growing up with intellectual, activist parents, his Dad’s weekly pre-college briefings about Things That Will Happen in New York (lecture one: prostitutes), an act of sexual altruism, a tale of CPR dummies and lady ghosts of the asylum, the difference between anthropology and evolutionary psychology, 80s cotillions, dating before cell phones, the similarities between Geoffrey and his brother the preacher, heteroflexibility, bisexual stigma, future sex-positive societies, talking to college students about polyamory, how Geoffrey met his first wife and became an Instant Stepdad, struggling with monogamy, stepfathering in prehistory, how marital therapy fails men, psychotherapy solutions vs. manosphere solutions, why most clinical psychologists aren’t well-versed in different relationship styles, and Geoffrey’s coming-out-poly story. Phew. And then I begin the tale of how I met Patrick, which begins with 14 Rooms and culminates at the Love Immersive, with Steve Dean (a recent horizontal guest!) as the catalyst.
In the second part of my conversation with Geoffrey, which will be released next week as episode 88, I dive deep into the massive revelation I had around my own jealousy, and he gives me a broader understanding of my emotions from an evolutionary psych perspective. To listen to that episode, become a patron of the horizontal arts at $7 or more per month (Yes yes! There’s now a $7 tier, by popular demand.)
Patreon is the love child of crowd-funding and a subscription service, and $7 a month gives you access to The Full Horizontal (all the part two episodes, and any bonus episodes which, P.S. One such bonus shall be released sooooon — plus an invite to the secret patrons group and our patron get-togethers!) Go to patreon.com/horizontalwithlila.
Now, come lie down with us in Bushwick, Brooklyn.
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This episode was mixed and mastered by Irving Gadhoury. You can find him for all your audio needs (including recording live music!) at IGrecording.com. As ever, my lovely intro music was composed by Alan Markley, on the Instagram as @plasticcannons, and my saucy likeness of a logo was illustrated by Shana Shay, whom you can hire through 99 designs.
Also, what do you think about this: horizontal listeners as a group, are hozzies… Thoughts Comments? Concerns?
Season 3 mostly consists of threesomes. Whereas in Season 1 and 2, I was lying down with a single guest at time, many of my Season 3 episodes will have me lying down with two people at a time — in this case, between two wizards.
These humans are in some kind of relationship with one another. Thus far, I’ve had a manager and his/her trauma specialist client, co-hosts of a sexuality conversation series called the Discerning Dick, primary poly kinky romantic partners, and now, Wizard friends and esoteric collaborators.
In this episode, I lie down with Devin & Kevin. I’ve known about Devin for years. My former housemate Tiger, who you heard from in Season One, used to say, “My Wizard friend,” quite regularly in casual conversation. But it wasn’t until Lola Jean’s Kinky Carnival when we became properly acquainted and made a podcast pact. He fulfilled his part of the pact months ago.
My episode of his series This Podcast is a Ritual is called “How To Take Life Lying Down,” and in it, we talked at a moderate incline, about the origin of my horizontal curiosity, couples therapy, reflective listening, and my working definition of intimacy. Then I made a call for closing rituals, to end romantic relationships.
I also cast you a Spell.
I am truly delighted by my blossoming friendship with Devin. He is impossibly quick-witted and fantastically charismatic, adventurous in spirit, and eternally playful. I get the sense that he could communicate with anybody, anywhere, for any amount of time. His long white-blond beard never fails to make me smile, and I am excited for our friendship to grow, because he’s one of the humans that I wish to bring my conundrums to, just to see what his brain will do with them.
He’s something like your most compassionate therapist, if your therapist were a young handsome Dumbledore proficient in computers who studied improv at Second City for 7 years. If you listen to his podcast, or participate in any of his events, like the Wizarding Hour (a collaboration with Kevin) or the Wizard Walkabout, in which 50 of us took ceremonial gummy bears and went gallivanting about Central Park on 4/20, guided by the Wizard in Person, as well as the Wizard in our Ears — you’ll know that Devin has a thing for numbers.
Not for nothin’, I also took part in a Sex Magick ritual for his podcast, on 6/9, from 6 to 9pm, with between 6 and 9 people.
His fiancee, L.A. Marks, had me on her poetry podcast, A Daily Dose of Poetry, and last week, told a tale of bisexual discovery at my horizontal storytelling: the summer pride edition.
On their mailbox is written: The Poet and The Wizard… (Can you imagine the Glory of Such a Wedding?!)
Kevin is a musician, a Senior UX Designer, and one of Devin’s dear friends. Their friendship has mostly taken place in the ether, in the form of Wizard emails, the record of which form a virtual diary, a correspondence that marks the living of our lives - in much the way, perhaps, that our grandparents wrote to their cousins.
Kevin was formerly the proprietor of Tarot Society, which was a center for the curious to gather in Bushwick and muse about things hidden and obscure. Devin & Kevin used to host a summer series there called New Age & Chill.
I never dropped by when Tarot Society was in existence, so I will have to entice Kevin to give me a reading at a pop-up or a party... His mischievous eyes and delight in getting away with things make me quite curious about the Wizardry of his Tarot.
The day of this recording was the first time I met Kevin, and, since he is a private person by nature, I am grateful that he chose to share, in the service of friendship and intimacy in this way, in this medium, with all of us. Thank you, Kevin.
In this episode, the first half of our conversation, we talk about the origin of the White Collar Wizard emails, middle-school boys and cock-shaming, Devin’s first acid trip, in 8th grade, the grand Bohemia of Olympia, Washington, learning that you aren’t "supposed to" cum too fast if you have a penis, sleep-sexing, learning about sex by asking a sexual partner, “What is your other sex like?”, Devin’s Wizard Tinder profile, 80s Penthouse, imprinting on your first porn, Kevin’s therapist, Ethical Porn for Dicks, shame-y, judgemental sex, and how some fantasies should just remain fantasies.
In the next episode, 86, the second half of our conversation, Devin and Kevin actually read us some of their private Wizard emails, we discuss what it means to be a present-day Tarot Dealer and a modern Wizard, and Devin tells us the truly incredible — as in, if you saw it in a movie you’d say, “That never happens in real life!” — and the incredibly true tale of how his hair turned Wizard White.
To listen to that episode, and for access to The Full Horizontal, which includes all the part twos plus a monthly video containing a pearl of Intimacy Wisdom, become a patron of the horizontal arts. Patreon is the love child of crowd-funding and a subscription service. Find me there!
In next week’s episode, we will be treated to the story of how Devin became a Wizard, and get to hear Devin & Kevin read some of the most pivotal Wizard Emails of their friendship.
This episode was mixed and mastered by Christopher Liang, of Audio Dojo. I’m truly grateful to have him on my team, and have already learned a great deal from him in one week of collaborating! He does Sound Mixing, Editing, and Design as well as original music for TV & Film, and composes under the name Ninjaboy.
My intro music was composed by Alan Markley, who is @plasticcannons on Instagram, and my cover art was designed by Shana Shay, whom you can hire on 99 Designs.
And now, come lie down... between two Wizards.
Usually, our conversation is long, sensual, and languorous, lasting between two and three hours, and when I release it as horizontal with lila, I divide it into two parts— the first half is available in all the podcast places, and the second is available exclusively to my patrons of the horizontal arts.
You can become a patron for access to the Full Horizontal, plus a monthly video of Intimacy Tips, and an invitation to the secret patrons group:
My part two episodes always conclude like this: At the end of each conversation, I ask my guest to tell me a story. It can be any story under the broad umbrella of intimacy — in other words, a tale that is related to sex, love, or relationships of any kind. I ask that my guest choose a story they feel deeply compelled to tell me, and trust that it will be the right one: a narrative that others need to hear.
I’ve had stories of myriad types and tones — stories about the first time ejaculating (episode 2. stuff came out), about friendship and suicide (episode 15. friend death), about having a relationship with a couple (episode 10. his fingers are always hard), about a big freaky wedding (episode 49. bawdy storytelling), etc. As I said. All kinds.
My live event horizontal storytelling, is just these stories, told back-to-back by six different pajama-clad, reclining storytellers. And on this coming Sunday, June 30th, two days from the release of this episode, I’m hosting another one. This time it will the horizontal storytelling pajama party: summer pride edition, and all tales told will be from the lips of LGBTQPIAD storytellers.
LGBTQPIAD stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Pansexual, Intersex, Asexual, and Demisexual. If you’re unfamiliar with any of those terms, check the glossary on horizontalwithlila.com, and while you’re there, sign up for the mailing list, so that you’ll know about all the events.
This weekend’s horizontal storytelling will include tales from folx across the gender and sexuality rainbow, and tickets are sliding scale for anybody in the community — just message me for a personalized discount code. If you are an ally, use the code LILALOVE in all caps, for $5 off.
So... I am broadcasting this quickie episode in honor of Sunday’s upcoming event.
This is one of the never-before-released tales from the last horizontal storytelling, held in February 2018!
In this quickie, I lie down with Bill Demeritt.
Bill is a thespian, which means that he spends a large portion of his life pretending to be someone else. Most of the people who do that exceptionally, are gifted with a formidable sense of compassion, and I believe that Bill is no different in that regard.
He performs on stage and screen (you can see him in the Emmy-winning The Normal Heart and Season Two of the acclaimed Vimeo series The Outs). He narrates audiobooks and longform journalism. He studied acting at Marymount Manhattan and the Yale School of Drama. He’s currently at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival working on Paula Vogel’s play “Indecent.”
Bill is charming and game and playful and handsome and nebbishy and a leetle bit nervous, all at the same time.
You can find all things Bill on WilliamDemeritt.com
I first met Bill while doing a live recording of Carol A. Jantsen’s Help: a podcast for those who need it, in which an agoraphobe character with self-help aspirations begins to get out in the world.
In Season 2 Episode 1: Lila Donnolo and the Double Date, Carol & I, Bill & Celeste go on a fictional double date in a very real Chinese food restaurant. Bill was cast as my “date,” and on the day we recorded, Bill brought me a dozen roses, that’s how committed he was to the scene. (I somehow ended up with 11 and they were sort of a consolation prize, but it’s fine.)
He’s getting married in November, after pulling off one of the most theatrical stage proposals I have ever seen captured on video. Congratulations, Bill. And thank you for showing me how it’s done.
In our quickie, Bill tells me a story about pierogis in New York, a callipygous behind, going to Poland for sex (and love), kohana, the word for sweetheart, a romantic trip to Nice, and the Grand Gesture.
And now, join us on Sunday for the next horizontal storytelling…
And come lie down with us at Hacienda Studio in Bushwick, Brooklyn.
* This episode was mixed and mastered by Christopher Liang at audio dojo.